General Lady GaGa Discussion

[IMHO]

Not in the real world, unfortunately.

Poor old Kesha probably is seen as a LOLpop puppet to be fair but surely people don't actually think Rihanna is the driving force behind her hits?

As MTM said above, very few people in the real world care.

[Archvile6]

Out in the ~real world~ aka off the internet..no one gives much of a shit about who writes what or produces what. They just hear a great tune and say "this is hot". The only time it's brought up is with those ~pop music isn't real music~ snobs. At least that has been my experience.

Exactly. Nobody but us who spend time on pop music forums give a shit who writes and produces what songs. The "general public" tends be of two minds:

A. All pop music is crap, and not a real music.
B. "I love songs about being in the club!"

The ones who are genuinely interested in pop music are right here. (figuratively speaking) You might find someone who says "Wow, I didn't know that!" when you let them know Gaga writes all of her music etc. but they generally don't really care in the long run. Especially if they don't like the music in the first place. They'll just say "...so she can write shit songs? Good for her?"

[PopFolke]

In my experience, people seem to be well aware of how involved Gaga is in all her output and may recognize her talent as a singer and songwriter, but are quick to shout "attention-seeking!" and "fake!" Beyonce is seen as a tremendous performer and voice, but not much of a creative individual, though God-like in some circles. Katy a manufactured bimbo, but sweet and playful enough for the kids' supervised birthday parties. Rihanna an ultra-cool and stylish by mainstream standards pussy popper who can't really sing. And Ke$ha a sleazy, literally dirty, LOLglitter obsessed Gaga-lite.

[Archvile6]

Yep. And Madonna an old has been who should just stay on bed-rest, and Britney will always be a manufactured crazy nut job who strips and can't sing a note. But when someone likes a song by any of these people, they don't care who it's written by, who produced it or how much input the artist had. They don't even care or know who it is half the time...they just know they like it.

[DirtyPornStar]

We are the 1%...of pop fans.

[TeenIdle]

It's interesting how most people, including other artists, praise Beyoncé or Rihanna and dismiss Katy or Ke$ha for being manufactured shit, but they actually have more creative control over their songs.

Eh, this is why people will diss pop music though, with stans thinking Ke$ha writing parts of her songs is "way better" than Beyonce changing some vocal things or Rihanna saying what she wants her writing camps to write about.

As Gaga said, "What do you mean it's so great I write my songs and I sing live? Why would I not do those things? I'm a musician, that is what I'm supposed to do."

[fancygreen]

We are the 1%...of pop fans.

I laughed.

[Blob]

Eh, this is why people will diss pop music though, with stans thinking Ke$ha writing parts of her songs is "way better" than Beyonce changing some vocal things or Rihanna saying what she wants her writing camps to write about.

As Gaga said, "What do you mean it's so great I write my songs and I sing live? Why would I not do those things? I'm a musician, that is what I'm supposed to do."

I thought she was a popstar?

[IMHO]

Being a musician and being a popstar aren't mutally exclusive you know.

'Pop music will never be lowbrow' and all that.

[Blob]

I thought pop music was lowbrow in a way? As in popular- for the masses. A simple tune that's catchy and gets people to feel some kind of emotion. Obviously not all pop music is lowbrow, but when pop meant 'popular' I would imagine it would mean more simple than highbrow. I've always seen it that way anyway. This could open a whole another topic but this isn't the thread.

In relation to Gaga and her musician role, the way I see it; if there's someone better for the job then get them to do it. And in my opinion in most cases Gaga has fell short when it comes to her lyrics.

Obviously popstars can write their own music/sing live and all that jazz. But I don't think they should have too. It's a bit ridick if you ask me. Where would Girls Aloud be if they had to write their own songs? I see them as musicians but in the early days they were manufactured to fuck. It still doesn't stop them being the darling girl band of this forum and known as pioneers in pop.

Dear me this is really off topic so apologies. I guess what I'm trying to say is; just because one person has done all the work, it doesn't mean it's the best piece.

[johnoclock]

A popstar doesn't need to write their own material but it certainly makes them more talented and sincere if they do.

[Archvile6]

"If there's someone better for the job, then get them to do it"

Perhaps Lady Gaga doesn't want someone else to do it? Maybe she likes being a popstar but also wants to do it her way instead of just being a voice or a muse of someone else's work? You don't have to be in a "band" or write a symphony to be a musician or an artist. I'm sure plenty of people play the piano miles better than her, and make her lyrics sound like playground chants...but that doesn't mean she should say "Well, they're better than me so I'm going to sacrifice my involvement for theirs." I don't like half the shit she does, most of it being imagery mind you, but she's got more talent for pop music in her pinky than Dr. Luke or Max Martin have in their entire bodies. The woman can actually write a chorus that uses real lyrics instead of "Ohh ohhh" or "woah woah" filling in the spaces where words should be. And these are the so called "professionals".

[The Johnster]

I thought pop music was lowbrow in a way? As in popular- for the masses. A simple tune that's catchy and gets people to feel some kind of emotion. Obviously not all pop music is lowbrow, but when pop meant 'popular' I would imagine it would mean more simple than highbrow. I've always seen it that way anyway. This could open a whole another topic but this isn't the thread.

I think this would be an interesting topic for a stand-alone thread, but just to butt in, doesn't this sort of point of view just assume that 'the populus' is full of brainless proles who need to be spoon-fed? At the end of the day, "artistic" music in the conventional sense uses the same 12 semitones, the same tools (i.e. instruments and voice) and often the same 4/4 time signature as "worthless" pop. In my opinion the idea that popular culture is 'inferior' borders on insulting - not so much within the context of this forum, obviously, but when people see themselves as having "better" taste just because theirs isn't "mainstream". But then I suppose it works the other way in terms of reversed snobbery at the hands of pop fans themselves.

[Sinful]

"If there's someone better for the job, then get them to do it"

Perhaps Lady Gaga doesn't want someone else to do it? Maybe she likes being a popstar but also wants to do it her way instead of just being a voice or a muse of someone else's work? You don't have to be in a "band" or write a symphony to be a musician or an artist. I'm sure plenty of people play the piano miles better than her, and make her lyrics sound like playground chants...but that doesn't mean she should say "Well, they're better than me so I'm going to sacrifice my involvement for theirs." I don't like half the shit she does, most of it being imagery mind you, but she's got more talent for pop music in her pinky than Dr. Luke or Max Martin have in their entire bodies. The woman can actually write a chorus that uses real lyrics instead of "Ohh ohhh" or "woah woah" filling in the spaces where words should be. And these are the so called "professionals".

Bloody Mary's middle 8 says hi ;)

[Itty Bitty Piggy]

known as pioneers in pop.

Literally no one outside of this forum thinks that. Anywhere. Ever.

[TeenIdle]

Eh, the point still kind of stands with Dr.Luke nor Benny Blanco or Stargate ever being able to produce something like Blood Mary, or writers like Bonnie McKee and Ester Dean ever being able to write something like it and even people like Katy and Rihanna not being able to sing it like Gaga does, though Gaga also contributes heavily to the production and writes the songs herself.

I said it before and I'll say it again - it's mind-numbing to think that Just Dance, Poker Face, Paparazzi, Bad Romance, Telephone, Alejandro, Born This Way, Judas and The Edge Of Glory all came from the mind of one woman. She writes the lyrics, the melodies and has a heavy hand in the production. It's like her own mind is one big writing camp, like what would happen for Rihanna or others with a couple dozen writers and producers crafting hits. She's the biggest influence on why she's the biggest female pop star since 2008 and she'd probably want it no other way.

[Rmx]

Exactly. She said herself it IS her second album, which is exactly why she thought it was enough to stand on it's own without being attached to The Fame. I know certain territories (maybe all but the US even?) still forced you to buy them together, but regardless...if she says it is it's own album, then it is it's own album.

Yes, over here the 'deluxe edition' simply had a fancy digipack but that was the only difference between the regular and deluxe editions. Both came with 2 discs of The Fame and The Fame Monster. Months later, or maybe even a year or so, they released a 1-disc edition of the Fame Monster.

[Itty Bitty Piggy]

I started writing a huge essay on the issue of Authenticity in Pop, but I kept on going off on tangents so I won't bore people with it...

I do think it is slightly arrogant of Gaga to point-blank refuse to take songs from anyone else. But, then again, she really doesn't need any help, so, yeah...

[Jonathan27]

I started writing a huge essay on the issue of Authenticity in Pop, but I kept on going off on tangents so I won't bore people with it...

I want to read this essay! I always need new points to convert my friends.

[nevermind]

Eh, the point still kind of stands with Dr.Luke nor Benny Blanco or Stargate ever being able to produce something like Blood Mary, or writers like Bonnie McKee and Ester Dean ever being able to write something like it and even people like Katy and Rihanna not being able to sing it like Gaga does, though Gaga also contributes heavily to the production and writes the songs herself.

I said it before and I'll say it again - it's mind-numbing to think that Just Dance, Poker Face, Paparazzi, Bad Romance, Telephone, Alejandro, Born This Way, Judas and The Edge Of Glory all came from the mind of one woman. She writes the lyrics, the melodies and has a heavy hand in the production. It's like her own mind is one big writing camp, like what would happen for Rihanna or others with a couple dozen writers and producers crafting hits. She's the biggest influence on why she's the biggest female pop star since 2008 and she'd probably want it no other way.

The reason why no one is singing about religious stuff in pop music is because it turns people off. Pop music is meant for da kidz since Elvis Presley and The Beatles. Why the hell would you sing about religion if your core fanbase are young people? Politics and religion are 'boring' subjects for them.

[Itty Bitty Piggy]

I want to read this essay! I always need new points to convert my friends.

I'm going to open a new "Issues in pop" thread since Alphableat's can't be found anymore.

[MissGranolaSuicide]

The reason why no one is singing about religious stuff in pop music is because it turns people off. Pop music is meant for da kidz since Elvis Presley and The Beatles. Why the hell would you sing about religion if your core fanbase are young people? Politics and religion are 'boring' subjects for them.

What a dreary approach to approach to the creative process that is. Of course pop music is, essentially 'populist' but it doesn't have to be a soulless excersise in demographics targeting either.

[Blob]

I knew this would open a can of worms... to the points made.

@Archville6 - I think it's admirable that she writes her own lyrics and obviously if she doesn't want someone else to write it then that's her choice. But if there is something better in front of you to take then why wouldn't you? Just because it isn't her 'brainchild' or whatever doesn't mean that it can't be a fantastic piece of music.

@Johnster - I don't think I tried to say that 'popular culture is 'inferior' and I understand how it could border on insulting, if I did say that then I do apologize. But let's look at what tops the chart nowadays. I'm not saying that people like to be spoon-fed or they're brainless but clearly simple music about 'da club' are hits with the public. I wouldn't say it's exactly a hard topic and it seems to sell well. But pop music is just that and I hate to see it exaggerated and clinically picked apart sometimes. It's their for enjoyment. I suppose this is part of the reason I don't get on with Gaga to well, everything she does gets picked apart and must relate to something. I miss the times where I could just enjoy listening to Gaga without thinking that every single thing she did had an outer meaning.

@teenidle - I think we'll have to disagree here, you think she writes/produces better than some people and does a better job than other singers/popstars but I don't. I suppose that's just personal opinion/preference though.

@Itty - They've had lots of praise from critics and fellow musicians alike. To say it's just this forum that thinks it is very closed minded IMO.

@MissGranolaSuicide - I think 'nevermind' was saying that some artists know what sells and use that to their advantage.

This post turned out to be a lot longer than it was meant to be. If there's a thread being opened to discuss issues like this I'd love to be linked to it. It's a very interesting subject indeed.

[nevermind]

I very much doubt her peers were like 'damn, why didn't I think of that?' after her religious stunts, more like 'good luck with that'.

[selectual]

In regard to Gaga receiving songs/demos from outside producers, I can see how she interprets it as "funny" as she prides herself in writing her lyrics and melodies. However, I really do wish she would let more people in as far as producers to work with, since I can't help but think that limiting herself to mainly Fernando Garibay restricts her sound. There are some great producers in the pop industry, and I think she feels that working with some of them would take away from her artistry, but I think bringing other individuals in would be good for further expanding her sound. I can only imagine that she is an insane pain in the ass when it comes to creating music and it would take a certain type of producer to be able to work with her, because I highly doubt she relinquishes much control these days.